mobility matters, s4 episode 4: flexibility in mobility: necessity vs possibility

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Elodie 00:20

Hi everyone and welcome to today’s episode of Mobility Matters, focusing on flexibility in mobility: necessity versus possibility. My name is Elodie. I am a global consulting leader in Asia-Pacific and I will be your host for today. At Cartus, we are looking forward to our session on flexible mobility at the next WERC event in Singapore on May 27. To give you a little bit of a taste of our upcoming session, we have invited a special guest today, who has over 15 years of experience in mobility and lots of stories to share. So, let’s get started. We’re very happy today to welcome Sylvia Gong, based in China. So, Sylvia, could you share a little bit more about yourself and your professional background?

Silvia 01:02

This is Sylvia Gong. I have been in an HR mobility or mobility consulting industry for my entire career. I’ve been with companies such as KPMG, bis and General Motors. My previous role for over a little bit over six years, was a global mobility lead for APAC and EMEA in general motors, and my main responsibility is for policy projects, fund management, and I’m also familiar with immigration, tax payroll requirements in various locations.

Elodie 01:33

Thank you, Sylvia, once again, really happy to have you on the podcast today. So as most of you joining us would know, flexibility and mobility is not new. It has actually been growing as a trend in our industry for quite some time now, from having more than one type of policy to having policies that give employees or businesses and HR options or simply choices about how services are delivered, like virtual versus in person. The reality is, mobility is just like any other type of industry, from, let’s say, grocery shopping or even joining a gym, everyone wants choices and options, right? So, Sylvia, in your experience, what is the best approach to bring more flexibility into mobility, and really, how do you make sure that your programs are aligned with the needs of your assignees?

Silvia 02:16

It happens to everyone who is listening that occasionally you might have an assignee approaching you, complains that the benefit or allowance provided is not sufficient and maybe they met other assignees and who is receiving more, or a different program and your employees feel that it is not fair to them. What I will do is not only look into our data or use a benchmark to evaluate the specific benefit, but also, I will try to find out what the assignee is really asking for.

So let me give you a specific example I actually had. It is common to have split families within the same host location in certain countries. Assignee in tier-three city in China and their family is in tier-one city in Shanghai due to children’s education reason, and the past policy provides18 round trips, like family visiting trips every year for expats. But they only provided X amount of lump sum for local employees who’s also on assignment but on their domestic country situation.

Local employees came to HR because they feel that the policy is unfair to them. And our approach was to check the travel data first. We found out the lump sum amount is similar to cover 18 trips, but a little bit less if the booking is made last minute. I talked to HRBP and found out this group is actually asking for more money because they may not actually use the 18 trips. Since some of them, they may use a business trip to visit their families in tier-one city.

As a result, we updated our policy for locals at the start of their assignment a one-time option, like one-time choice. They can choose at the start whether to receive the lump sum payment or get a reimbursement on 18 trips. Guess what? It turns out that still majority, they choose lump sum payment. Only a couple of them choose to have the reimbursement.

Elodie 04:36

Thank you for sharing this, Sylvia. I think it’s a great example showing that by truly listening to the employees’ needs, right, using data and doing additional research, you were able to create a flexible approach that did not increase the cost for the company, which let’s face it, is often a priority as well, right? So, I’m sure this is a perspective that will resonate with many of our listeners today. So, Sylvia, do you have other examples of flexibility in mobility?

Silvia 04:58

Now most companies provide a housing allowance based on family size on assignment and also job level. I got a case a few years ago in Dubai. We had a single mom who relocated with one child. After the pre-assignment trip, she shared that the housing allowance for family size of two is not sufficient for her and her son. Since her son needed his own room and she need to get a domestic helper to take care of her son while she’s at work. So, I took a look at her home viewing list on all the houses she visited and I actually agreed with her the housing need for one parent plus one child should be the same as two parents plus one child. So, we updated the housing policy and start to provide housing for single parents as both parents are on assignment with children.

Elodie 05:55

Sylvia, I love this. Actually, it reminds me of a Core/flex benefit that we at Cartus introduced a couple of years ago, which has become quite popular with lot of our clients. So, the idea is that a single parent employee receives an extra round-trip ticket for either a friend or a family member to travel with them to the destination country and help the kids to get settled at home, you know, in their bedrooms and at school. Because we know it’s super challenging as a single parent to juggle the relocation, starting a new job and looking after their family.

So, Sylvia, I think your example of housing allowance really fits with the trend that we are seeing around supporting single parents, which is so important

Silvia 06:31

Another example I want to share with you and our listeners today is one of the main cultural differences I’ve seen in exception requests is how assignees originating from Asia wants to bring their parents or parents-in-law as dependent on assignment or include their parents as dependent on their assignment benefit program. For instance, we had a Korean male assignee who wanted to bring to China his 84-year-old mom who can only speak Korean. And to my previous employer, so long as the parent or in-law meet the home country legal definition, we would support the assignee to bring them on assignment. Except for one item, which is international health care coverage, the employee still needs to be responsible for parents or parents-in-law’s health care coverage.However, if the parent wants to stay in their home country, then they are not currently covered for any split-family benefit.

Elodie 07:41

Again, I think this is a great example and something that we see with our clients as well. So here at Cartus, we see that if a dependent parent already lives with the family and is counted for tax reason as part of the family, then usually the companies, you know, relocating them would include them on the assignment as dependent. So, I think we used to see more of those requests coming from Asian countries, but this is actually growing in other parts of the world now. So, on the topic of cultural differences, Sylvia, I know you’ve held global positions in the industry, maybe can you identify some regional trends that are more specific to Asia-Pacific or any types of needs or requests that we see more in Asia-Pacific than the rest of the world?

Silvia 08:19

Well, in my previous role, we had a DEI review for our policy a couple of years back, for redefining a family unit like same sex partner or for defecto marriage. And I noticed all the APAC headquartered companies are just starting this too. This policy has been enhanced to include partners as dependent eligible for assignment related benefit and allowances, so long as same sex partner or defecto marriage is recognized on a home country employee benefit program. If the partner can obtain legal long-term stay visa in the host country and willing to relocate, then the partner will be considered as a dependent on assignment. If the partner cannot get a long-term stay visa in the host country or not willing to relocate, then the policy will be considered as a split family.

Elodie 09:22

This is good to hear, especially in our region. And I’m happy to share that we also see this at Cartus as more and more of our clients are moving towards more inclusive mobility strategies. So really good to hear. Maybe Sylvia, do you have one last example for us on how companies can be more inclusive through flexibility?

Silvia 09:40

Flexibility, is easily called as core/flex benefit model or flexibility for the assignee. But I think it is more than that. Not only is flexibility applied on the type of benefit the assignees can choose, it is now becoming more and more important as it provides flexibility for the business unit on program designing based on business needs.

And I was in another mobility conference in early April, and one of the increasingly common requests is for more flexibility in program types and mobility team can deliver based on business needs. And with the obvious evolving business and the geopolitical environment, I do see more and more companies, business unit, asking for different assignment types or programs. For example, we haven’t heard the word about local class or hybrid for years. But now, business unit may ask for a light program or for a certain group moves. Of course, there will be other elements we need to consider. For example, additional administrative costs when you’re having more programs and also, what technology like AI can do to support on the program tracking.

Elodie 11:05

That’s a great point. And choice and options do come in many shapes and forms, right? And we also need to be mindful and need to be flexible around business units needs as well, very great point. Sylvia, have you ever had any challenging situation when it came to exercising flexibility when relocating employees? And if so, how did you manage to solve this challenge?

Silvia 11:27

We are in a very challenging industry. We receive new challenges, questions every day. One of the most frequently asked questions and key topic is education. No matter what the assignee’s nation or background is, there always will be a couple of people from different host locations coming to me and challenging our preschool coverage.

In our previous study, it’s not a common covered item for preschool. There are a criterion that need to be met. Two most arguable ones are, first, preschool age. In the current policy, child need to be four or turning four in that school year. Often people would argue that my home country provides preschool from year two and why can’t (I) enroll my child when he or she turns two years old in the host country and I don’t need to pay anything in the home country because it’s free. And the second topic is preschool fee cap. I do a review annually to set preschool fee cap for locations with preschool needs assignees and often people would ask me why the cap cannot cover 100 % of the school fee for the schools they want to go to.

For question one on preschool age, we will not be able to please everybody on this because obviously the preschool age are getting younger and younger. I do think we need to review this and continue to track the trend. In the meantime, my answer to the assignees is that four is a common age that we would allow the coverage and we would even allow the coverage for children who’s turning four in the summer break of the year, like an extension, a stretch of the policy. As for the question or challenge on school fee cap. We need support from RMCs, our relocation consultants to help to set up expectation from the beginning that the cap is sufficient to cover for tuition for over 50% of the popular international schools in the host location. But it may not be sufficient to cover the most expensive ones. That’s why we have a cap.

Usually this works. But still, I will receive questions from senior executive assignees asking for more, why, what is the logic. What I will do is pull out various data like preschool benchmark, what other companies are providing, we are providing, school tuition benchmark, how I come up with a school fee cap, what the other attendees are paying or going to pay in the same location, etc. So, to prove that we have a cap, it applies for everyone and it is a generous benefit compared to the market.

It may not work in all the companies. Some may still continue to press global mobility team for a higher budget. Then I want to bring to my sharing at the beginning of the podcast – what is your assignee really asking for? More money to their pocket or just as a service that they’re actually going to use. Is this family having like any specific education needs? What do they need to pay out-of-pocket for the same level of education if they were still at home? And is this request aligned with your company’s business goal? Should it be an exception or should this be applicable for all the assignees globally?

Elodie 15:28

That makes a lot of sense. think this approach of asking questions until you really get to the core motivation behind the exception request makes a lot of sense. And I feel it’s a really good technique to solve many complex issues in general. So, thanks for sharing this, Sylvia. So, before we wrap up, would you have one last piece of advice for our listeners looking to review their policies to add more flexibility, be more inclusive, and enhance the customer’s experience overall?

Silvia 15:54

So first, track your exceptions. If an exception is frequently or regularly asked and approved, it should be a regular policy item and should not be an exception. DEI is not only for LGBTQ community, it should also include non-traditional family like single parent, people with disabilities, special needs and cultural differences. So flexibility doesn’t always mean more benefits or more money. It can also be more options for people to choose what’s the most suitable one for them. Last but not least, flexibility should be considered for your business unit’s needs as well.

Elodie 16:38

I love these tips, Sylvia, thank you so much. And thank you for being so generous with your time and sharing all of these great examples and tips with us. I really enjoyed this discussion today. And I think one of my favorite examples that you shared was the single parent inclusive allowance. I was actually quite impressed with this one. So, this is bringing us to the end of our podcast for today. Once again, it was really great having you, Sylvia.