mobility matters, s4 episode 5 – epic moves: heartfelt and unbelievable corporate relocation stories

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Kristi Lund

Chris, welcome to another episode of mobility matters, where we dive into the fascinating world of corporate relocation. I’m your host, Kristi Lund, and today we have a very special episode lined up for you. We’re going to be talking about some of the coolest, most heartwarming, challenging, and I can’t believe that actually happened, real little stories from people who live and breathe it every day. So today I’m joined by two industry veterans who are bound to have some memorable encounters. So I really can’t wait to dive in. So let’s start by getting to know our guests a little bit more. Ben and Brenda, welcome to the show, Ben. Let’s, let’s kick it off with you. Tell us a little bit more about your background and how you got into the industry and what you do today.

Ben Cross

Sure. Yeah, Ben cross, and I’ve been in the relocation space now, was the 2025 so you know, officially, 20 years now, and I got into this business, working at a containerized moving and storage company in a call center in Dallas, is the first job that would hire me out of college and worked in the call center, doing sales for them, and then kind of moved up through the organization, getting exposure to national accounts, sales management, things of that nature, government accounts as well. And I kind of stayed on that track, you know, forever working another container company, and then with a a large van line agent, before going out on my own five years ago, starting at consulting and recruiting firm in the global mobility space called glomo. And we were, we trademarked that name, and we got the.com and all that. And that was five years ago, and and it’s been really fun. It’s been a lot. It’s been great. This industry has been really, really wonderful for me and my and my family and all the people are amazing.

Kristi Lund

That’s awesome. So a true veteran, thanks for joining us today, and Brenda, you’re not only my colleague, but a rock star in the industry. Why don’t you give us your background as well?

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Wow,

Wow,

Wow, that that… That’s a lot to live up to so well. My name is Brenda Thony Johnson. Everybody lovingly refers to me as btj, or they sing my Name, which I find really funny. It’s always Brenda Tony Johnson. Nobody can just say it’s either gotta be they’re singing it or they’re shortening it to vtj, whatever works for you. But I started in the industry a little later than Ben. I’ve been in the industry now about 17 years, and I started on the temp living side. And I am a stereotypical that, you know, I fell into the industry. I have a degree in biology. I was slated to go to medical school, and life took me in a different direction, so I worked on the temp living side for about a decade before joining Cartus in the fall of 2019 and I handled full relocation management, sales and business development efforts here. And fun fact about Ben and I, Ben was one of the very first people that I ever met in the industry. So I kind of feel like this brings it full circle.

Ben Cross

It does.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

We kind of grew up in the industry together. We were both pretty young, and met at a worldwide ERC event

Ben Cross

In Chicago. I think it was,

Kristi Lund

Wow, that’s awesome.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Yep, yep. Yeah, so Ben is kind of one of one of those people that, you know, I always, I’m gonna have a soft spot in my heart for because I feel like we just go way back, and it’s been, it’s been fun to see your growth been in the industry, and all the changes and things that you’ve done and you’ve made a real impact.

Ben Cross

Well, thank you. And same, same to you. Brenda, I mean, we were just, we were just kids back then, right? We just had this, like, magical ERC experience, right? And then we’re, like, kind of debriefing, like, we run into each other at the food court and like, O’Hare or something like that, and we sit down and, like, I don’t know, share a Chicago dog or something, and just like, laugh about the conference that we just had. And we really kind of connected at that point. And I’ve always, I’ve always, you know, had a soft spot in my heart for BTJ as well. And then watching you kind of come up through corporate housing and now be in the RMC world, and obviously me kind of moving from being, you know, a mover to now having my own company. It’s been really cool watching you come along and kind of doing it alongside you, Brenda.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

What a love fest. This great.

Kristi Lund

And medical school? Brenda, I think that’s a unique one. I don’t know if I’ve heard anyone in the real industry who originally went for that, but you’re saving lives every day in other ways.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

There you go. But maybe it’s not life or death.

Kristi Lund

Fair, fair, I should say, impacting lives every day.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

There you go. There you go.

But, well, I’m excited since, of course, you both have grown up in industry. I’m sure when you met at GW s and shared that Chicago dog, you didn’t know what you were getting into. So I’m really excited to hear about some of the most impactful, memorable moments that you can think of over your careers thus far. So with that, let’s dive right in. I want to hear a few of the most heart. Warming scenarios you’ve encountered in your career. Are there anything in particular that stick in your mind? Ben, we’ll start with you.

Ben Cross

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. You know, I feel like every conference is heartwarming for me, and that was one of the reasons I started my podcast, love and reload. We started five years ago. We’ve done almost 700 episodes now, and it was really founded, because I would make such great connections with people like Brenda at the conference, and then I’d come back to the office, and I would just be on fire say, oh my gosh, you wouldn’t believe it was so amazing. And blah, blah, blah, blah, and everybody would look at me like I was crazy, because they’re just like, you know, just working and doing, pushing the files and whatever, you know, and I wanted to share that experience with them, and I wanted to bring the conference vibes to the cubicle.

And I wanted those people who never had the privilege of getting outside of the four walls of the company and experiencing it, to be able to kind of get a sneak peek into the thought leadership, into the heartwarming stories and and that’s kind of why I made Love and Relo, right?

So one of the most heartwarming things that ever happened, honestly, wasn’t even through the process of relocating people as much as it was through the show. And I had the experience just recently at the last at the last of the ERC in DC, where a guy came up to me who was on the show three years ago, four years ago, early, and he said, Ben, I came over from the UK. And he said, Ben, I brought my daughter. She’s three months old. And I was like, oh, that’s super cool. Like, I’d love to meet your baby. You know? He’s like, Yeah, I wouldn’t have had her without you.

And I’m like, What are you talking about? Like, am I a surrogate talking about and? And he’s like, No, my fiancé-now they’re engaged to be married. He’s like, I wanted to date her. I was connected. I was trying to connect with her on Hinge, and she wouldn’t connect with me. And so she went online and she Googled me. She found our interview. She watched it, she determined that I actually was a nice, decent person that she should get to know.

They started to date. They had a baby. Now they’re getting now they’re actually married, and it was because he was on the show. And I was like, Holy crap, that’s so cool. I would have never thought that we were making babies out here on Love and Relo. But we, we have been so that that, to me, was probably the most touching, humbling thing that’s happened to me in our industry.

Kristi Lund

So I didn’t know that was, I was gonna say, I didn’t know that was the love behind Love and Relo.

Ben Cross

Well, people ask me, what’s the deal with the title? And I’m like, Oh, it was supposed to be a dating show originally, and then we just kind of went work with it. But I always said that, like, tongue and cheek and then, like, sure enough, people are actually meeting, you know, amazing.

Kristi Lund

I love that. That actually reminds me one of my favorite heartwarming experiences that I’ve had, because I used to be a consultant who would help relocating employees directly. I had a family who was moving from the UK to the US, and on our first call, we were having such a great time, and they ended up telling me I was the first person to know that they were expecting a baby.

And I was like, I just met you, and this is wonderful news. I’m so excited for you. And it was just such a nice heartwarming thing, because relocation is such an interesting intersection of work and life. So you’re going to hear those true, touching life stories. And it was just really special to be a part of that.

Ben Cross

That’s really cool.

Kristi Lund

What about you? Brenda, what do you think of? Oh,

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

You know, I think of, again, my early days in temp living. I was working for a company that partnered and provided temp living accommodations to an organization that their global headquarters was in Japan, but their US headquarters was in the greater Minneapolis area. And these individuals would come over and it started. They were only supposed to be on, you know, six month to one year assignments. Some of them ended up staying for years.

But one of the things that I really loved about what we were able to do is we were the first, I guess, group of people to really start interacting with them as they were planning their their trip over to the US, and we were really able to help them get, I guess, ingrained and comfortable in their new location.

There’s a really big cultural difference between Japan and the United States. And even though they work for a Japanese, you know, headquartered company that has an HQ in the US, it’s still very, very hard day to day. Life is just incredibly different. The way that we interact in a business situation is very different. So we always try to do everything we could to make their home life as comfortable and as normal to them as possible.

So that was things like very early on, before this was even a thing making sure, that there was a cooking package in their in their kitchens that had like a rice cooker. We would always include a walk. We would include chopsticks as well as forks, you know, just little things like that that we knew really meant a lot to them. We also partnered with a local DSP to make sure that they, if they didn’t have great, you know, English speaking capabilities, that they were going to be able to get set up in the country, you know, get their driver’s license, all that good stuff, and be able to navigate that with someone by their side who spoke the local language, or the most commonly spoken language.

So again, there were just a lot of little things that we did, and the stories like some of these people would stay with us, as I mentioned for years, and they would say it made such a difference that we took the time to understand that they were coming from such a completely different culture, and we did what we could to make them feel comfortable. So to me, that that was just really great to know that there were years that these individuals spent here that we helped kind of create that foundation for them and help them, you know, start to build their life here in the US. So that’s probably the most heartwarming for me. I mean, it’s it’s a big deal to move to a country or in a location where it’s so different than where you’re accustomed to living so very much a feel good. Feel good moment in my in my career.

Kristi Lund

I feel like that’s such a good takeaway, not just for Relo, but life in general, is that the smallest item that shows you’re thinking about someone can make such a massive difference. That’s really special, Brenda. I love that. So part of heartwarming stories, though, also include challenges. Some of the like, most fun stories and things we get to work on come out of really challenging situations.

So I was curious if either of you had anything you’d think about or like to share in terms of really big challenges that you’ve encountered. You know, the stories, when people ask you, what do you do in relo? And it’s the fun, fun things that come out of issues. So what do you think, Ben?

Ben Cross

Everybody thinks that they’re part of the relo life cycle is the most important part, is what I’ve discovered and talking there, you know, even though, even the mortgage people like, ‘yeah, but if you can’t get a mortgage, man, like, you’re not gonna move’. You know, everyone thinks that, like their part is the, you know-temp living movers-everybody thinks they’re part… And movers are no exception, right? Movers think that their part is the most important part. And so I was in the moving side of it for like, 15 years, and we would, we we specialized at one point, and this is a really bad strategy. I don’t recommend this to anybody, but we specialized in short notice moves, like short notice moves.

We also specialized in doing moves that nobody else wanted, maybe because they’re in the middle of nowhere, maybe they’re short notice, maybe they’re too small. We did that for a few summers, until we learned right? It took three years to learn that lesson, but anyway, we did it. And so we got a a short, a short notice move, and it was in upstate New York, and was moving for a very large client, very, very important client, and there was, like, three days notice. We’re like, yeah, sure, we’ll take it. And the transferee was already at destination. She was some sort of project manager. She’d been working on site for six months. She was already at destination. And now they’ll say, okay, this is going to go from a temporary assignment to a to a permanent relocation.

Now I need my household goods. So the property manager lets us into the apartment that she was in. She was like in a two bedroom apartment. Lets us in and what it turned out, we discovered, was that a tree had fallen through the roof of this apartment, and now there’s this gaping hole in the roof, and it had been there for God knows how long, so it been exposed to the elements. There were now critters living in there that had nested in the in the unit there was, it was just, it was terrible, right? But hey, you know, movers got to move, right? You got to figure it out, you know? And so we called the client, of course, and we’re like, listen, here’s the deal. You know, we don’t really feel comfortable doing this, like, it’s kind of a mess, like, and they’re like, well, we got to get this person out.

Like, what do you what do you what do you suggest? I don’t bring me problems, bring me a solution. And so I was like, well, all right, if I’m thinking outside the box, which is kind of one of my specialties, I wasn’t really good at thinking in the box, but outside the box, I was amazing. So I’m like, all right, let me, let me figure this out. So we ended up going to another one of our partners Serve Pro that we actually have partnered with. And we went to them and we said, yo, how much to do like, a full blown, clean, take all the stuff out, you know, recondition it, whatever?

This is what they do when there’s fire, floods, etc. They’re like, you know, I forget the number, I think was like five grand or something like that. So I went back to the client. I’m like, yo, it’s gonna be five grand. Like, you want to do it? They’re like, Yeah, okay, sure. It’s approved. I’m like, Wow. All right, sweet. So we called up the Serve Pro guys. They come in, like the full hazmat suits, they pull everything out, they clean all the household goods and whatnot. And then at that point, we were able to pack it up and ship it without worrying that it was gonna be molded or whatever. And we took care of it.

But in that moment, I realized, you know, don’t bring problems, bring solutions. Don’t tell people you can’t do something, tell them how much it’s going to cost, what it’s going to take, and at that point, it’s up to them to get it approved or not get it approved, right? So that was kind of a good lesson for me. And there’s always a work around there’s always a way to figure it out if you think, if you’re willing to think differently,

Kristi Lund

Absolutely and that, I mean, that’s our job, is to figure out a solution, right? That’s fantastic. And there weren’t any furry critters that ended up having a free pet relocation in that process.

Ben Cross

Or, I hope not. Listen, we’ve shipped our fair share of cats. Okay? Because cats will just go and hide in a sofa,

Kristi Lund

Oh I didn’t think about that.

Or they’ll hide, yeah, they’ll hide in a drawer of a dresser, or whatever. You know, the cat gets real attached cats, I don’t leave me behind. You know, they didn’t know that Air Animal was gonna ship one destination, first class on Delta. They so they’re just, they’re gonna stow away, you know, in an armoire or something. And then, we’ve gotten those before, too. And sometimes you can save the cat, you know, sometimes you can’t.

Kristi Lund

So you’ve been getting, you get calls from the owners after the pack and load?

Ben Cross

Where’s my cat? I’m like, I don’t know where your cat is. Like, wow, that was on the inventory. Don’t know that we said we were gonna move your cat. We tried not to move your cat. Did your cat want to get moved? You know? Because if it did that, hey, you know, I don’t know.

Kristi Lund

So lesson learned, if you’re listening and you have a pack and load coming up and multiple cats, maybe take them out of the house for the day or two.

Ben Cross

Take them out of the house and put them in a friend’s you know, make sure you have care, custody and control that cat before the the movers depart at every stage too, because once that gets into the shipment and it’s all packed away back there, it’s not coming out so. And sometimes the cats just playing hide and seek, or they’re running around the yard, or they’re up in the tree, they’re on the roof, you don’t know that they’re in the shipment, just because you can’t find them. So that happens too, sometimes, sometimes false alarm, you know?

Kristi Lund

Wow. I know we’ve heard of our fair share of crazy animals that need to be relocated, but I’ve never heard of a stowaway cat before. That’s a new one. Um, we’ve heard of kangaroos, horses. It’s just the full thing, right? I once had a family who had a goldfish, and we’re moving from the US to the UK, and the dad asked me, Is there any way we can transport this goldfish? And goldfish don’t live very long, like there’s no way a goldfish is living through a transatlantic experience, right? So he was like, I understand. I’ll just tell my children that he had a little Finding Nemo moment, and we’ll just get a new one upon destination. So that was the plan. But you don’t want to leave all your pets behind.

Ben Cross

I thought you were gonna say that they asked you to buy a new goldfish with a bowl at destination and say it magically got transported but it wasn’t the same goldfish.

Kristi Lund

You know, maybe if that were part of some VIP services, that would have been included.

Ben Cross

Hiding bodies and replacing them.

Kristi Lund

Oh, my. What about you, Brenda? Is there any specific challenge that comes to mind?

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson 18:10

Well, I mean, again, I love these stories, and I know that we can all share them. So probably the most challenging was when we had a client. Again, I’m talking about my temp living days reach out, and they had a need for housing in Minot, North Dakota. Okay, there is nothing, very little in Minot, North Dakota.

Now, mind you, this was like 1617, years ago, and so the big thing at that time was these man camps. They would literally put up pole barns. And then the workers would bring their their trailers, their pop up, you know, campers, different things. Park them inside these pole tents, because it’s very cold also in Minot, North Dakota, and they would be able to plug into the electricity there, get connected to water. But we had a higher level individual that needed to relocate was unwilling to do so without his family.

And so we had to try to source-the man camp was not going to work, this was not going to work for them. So we had to try to source housing for this individual. Well, the housing that we found, we’ll just say that it wasn’t up to our normal standards, because when in Rome, you have to roll with it. So the furniture in the majority of the places that we found was dating back to the 80s, if not older, and a lot of the owners or landlords were not willing to let us remove the furniture so we could actually deliver because we were happy to do that. So that was one of the challenges.

The other challenge was they wanted cash, and these homes were going so quickly that they wanted cash for a security. Deposit. Because, as I’m sure you can imagine, if somebody found out that there was a home available when there is a shortage of living, you know, accommodations, it’s a pretty hot commodity. So we ended up having to, I remember the very first one. We finally convinced this landlord to allow us to take a picture of a check. We wrote a check in the amount which would never fly today by all of the regulations, but it was the only way to get this done. We took a picture of the check, and then we actually had one of our team members drive it from Minneapolis up to Minot, North Dakota, and we had to promise that we were coming that day, or they were going to give the home to another candidate. So, that was probably one of the crazier ones, but we actually ended up securing housing for I think it was like six individuals in that area that we were able to get out of the man camps and into actual brick and mortar homes. But it was certainly a challenge.

Kristi Lund

I feel like, aren’t those the best wins when you’re like, there, what? You, like Ben said, come with a solution, but sometimes you got to really rack your brain for a solution in those remote areas. So that’s amazing. Brent. Six.

Ben Cross

Talk about going the extra mile. Yeah, I had a similar situation where we moved somebody, you know, from Brownsville, Texas, on the border right of Mexico and Texas. And we moved this person, you know, I forget where we moved. We moved them, you know, in Memphis. I want to say it was Memphis, and they left behind, the movers left behind. Somebody left-of course, it’s always the movers’ fault-this mega dog house in the back. And it was like a dog house with like a heated floor. And it was a serious dog. It was almost like a mini shed, almost right? And I sent my sales guy down there from from from Dallas, Texas, down to Brownsville. And it was like 6-7-8, hours, how long? And, and he went down there. And, I mean, it’s on the border, like you’re, you’re walking around and and in USCIS and ice and I those guys are, like, around, like, checking cars at stoplights. I mean, that’s how, like, on the and he went, got this, he went and got this, this dog house, and got it on a pallet, and we got a freight trailer out there to pick it up and and ship it to Memphis. But, I mean, you got to do those things. And in order to get those, those transferee satisfaction scores that we live and die by, right?

Kristi Lund

Absolutely. And I feel like household goods gets the most interesting insight because you’re in someone’s home, like there’s just a lot of unique intricacies that happen with that, right?

Ben Cross

You see it all.

Kristi Lund

And it makes it makes me wonder Ben about what you’ve seen on like valuations. Like, for example, I asked because we once had an employee in my prior role who put a magic carpet on the valuation list. And how do you value a magic carpet? And how do you ensure that?

Ben Cross

Listen, I’m going to tell you right off the bat, okay. Somebody tells me it’s a magic carpet. We mark it down MCU. Okay, so we’ll write “magic carpet, MCU”. You know what MCU stands for?

Kristi Lund

No, what is that?

Ben Cross

No, mechanical condition, unknown, which means we do not know if this carpet flies or not. We know it’s a carpet. We know if there’s nick scratches on it. We do not know if it works. We will do the same thing with TV, a washer, any piece of electronics or anything that does something, unless we’ve observed it doing that thing in our presence, we write down mechanical condition unknown, because when that carpet gets the destination and it does not fly. Listen, we never saw it fly to begin with. Okay? So we didn’t make it not fly. Okay? So I just want to be very clear about that.

And then in situations like that, if somebody says, Well, this magic carpets $100,000 you know, typically, a movers’ liability will be capped, at least it used to be $100 per pound, not with inflation and things. I don’t know if that’s still the rule or not, but $100 per pound. Anything over $100 per pound, becomes high value inventory and needs to be listed on what we call an HVI; high value inventory form. And then if, if there’s a certain amount of stuff on that form, it is an abnormally high amount of valuation for that shipment, and they would have to get a separate rider for that shipment, and they’d have to insure basically separately. And then there’ll be an additional cost of that. So, so magic carpet fall in there.

But nowadays, you know, things that cost $100 per pound are fairly common in our life, right? I mean, think about your iPhone, right? Think about your your iPad. Think about, you know, maybe, um, you know, maybe an Xbox or a Nintendo Switch, you know, things like that. Obviously, jewelry falls into that. Some artworks, right, follow fall into that. So I think it’s very important to use a mover that understands the corporate relocation process, that understands the real, the valuation that is included, typically in a shipment like that, and then what’s above and beyond non standard.

Kristi Lund

Yeah, absolutely.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Well let’s talk about acronyms here, since you know, you throw out your your acronym. I have to. We use way too many of them in this industry. But ours for this situation in like the Minot North Dakota is we found a UBE and that stands for ugly but effective.

This was totally what the case was when these landlords would not let us move out their 1980s furniture. It got the job done. It was ugly, but it was effective. So, UBE.

Ben Cross

I feel like my wife calls me that anyway.

Kristi Lund

Oh no!

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Oh Ben!

Kristi Lund

Thinking of things that get packed up too, that aren’t meant to be packed. Curtis actually had an example recently where an employee was moving internationally and accidentally forgot to, like, place his passport to the side.

So even though, of course, you’re advised, like, make sure you have all your personal documentation, it got packed and loaded in the shipment. So we scrambled and were able to get our mover to go in and remove the passport just before it hit customs and was about to get on a ship. So really, really, like, scary time for the employee, but we got it sorted out. It was all good.

Ben Cross

Well, and there’s, there’s solutions that can always be found in situations like that, kind of like my story from before, but it’s kind of also about, like, who’s going to pay for that, right? Because there’s a cost to pulling that container, unloading the entire thing, looking for the passport, derailing the shipment, pulling the truck over, stops all the other shipments that’s on that truck.

I mean, there’s a lot of second order of third order effects that happen there, right? And there’s a cost to it. So, yes, it’s fixable, but, but that cost needs to be understood, needs to be approved and needs to be authorized soon, because the longer it goes now, if it’s on a boat right, now, it’s a whole different can of worms, absolutely. So. So anyway, these, these things, and I think that’s why, you know, working with a really good RMC, like Cartus, you know, where there’s a lot of processes in place, and y’all seen it all, done it all right, you know, I think, I think that’s important.

Kristi Lund

Yeah, Ben, I think you had referenced to me before that, when you had started your own process and you had, like, gone up and done training with Cartus about all of these and expectations that are put on you as a supplier and how to mitigate These issues or address them when they do happen?

Yeah, well,

Ben Cross

That was because we were constantly inventing new ways to screw up. And so what happened is we got called to Danbury, and they said, ‘let’s put you through complimentary training’. So we did that. We did that lovely complimentary training, and they taught us about things like root cause, root causes, you know, Six Sigma kind of training, things like that, about rooting out defects in your process, right?

So, so if something goes wrong, you have a non desired outcome happen, you go back and say, Okay, why did it happen? And if you ask why five times, then all of a sudden you get to the root cause. And every week I would get to fill out for for Ken up there in Danbury, a root cause evaluation about, well, why we screwed up that week, and what we’re going to do about rooting out that cost. And it did. It made us much better movers. It really did.

Kristi Lund

Well, that’s why it’s important to partner with the right RMC’s, right then you really get that training and make sure everything’s on track, instead of an automatic you messed up once you’re done, right? It’s it’s important.

And so I want to backtrack. You had mentioned the tree falling on the house, and that makes me think about natural disasters, because that, of course, poses challenges that no one can truly effectively be proactive about it, just they happen.

So I actually have a really cool example, and I’d love to hear if either of you have anything else in terms of natural disasters. But at Cartus, we have an executive VIP program for higher level employees that are moving if clients want to utilize that. And there was a flood, and this executive and his family were stranded in their home. They had no way to get out. So the Cartus consultant realized how urgent this was, of course, and went on Facebook and found a local resident who was actively assisting with evacuations with his boat. So the Cartus consultant arranged this evacuation for the individual so they they were saved within an hour. And then, of course, the consultant set them up in really safe, temporary accommodations outside of the flood zone.

So just like a really terrible thing to happen, but such a cool, rewarding support that that consultant could provide to that family. Because when else would you ever be involved unless you’re truly in, like, a situation, like working for FEMA or something like that, right? So it’s really cool that we could do that for that employee.

Ben Cross

That’s amazing. My first thought, I mean, it sounds terrible to say this, my first thought is, how much you charge for that service?

Kristi Lund

Of course. Ben always about the cost.

Ben Cross

Well, but think about it. How long did it take for that person to do that, and what was the value to that family be rescued? I mean, they literally,like extracted that family from a dire situation.

Kristi Lund

Absolutely.

Ben Cross

And I think, I think about, I bring it up because I think there’s so many things that we do as an industry, and we love to tell these stories, we’re really proud of ourselves, and we should be that we don’t, we don’t know how to charge for and there’s so many things because other companies would charge for that. I mean, there’s companies that extract people from emergency situations, that charge handsomely for that. And yet we don’t. We do it as a value add. And we add so much value that we forget sometimes that we’re in business.

And I wonder, I wonder sometimes if, if we do ourselves a disservice, because our ability to continue going above and beyond is hindered by the fact that it takes a lot of time to do it, and there’s no money in it for us, so we actually become disincentivized to do stuff like that, when I think we should quite the opposite. I mean, we should be living those heroic moments all the time for our clients.

Kristi Lund

Yeah, that’s a really good thought. It makes me..go ahead. Brenda,

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

I was gonna say, you know, I think a lot of times too, we end up playing the role of a of a counselor. You know? I know that we use the term, you know, that we’ve got our counselors at Cartus, etc, consultants, but we end up really being a shoulder to lean on, to cry on. We have to listen a lot. And so, you know, mine was not so much a natural disaster situation.

However, we used to partner with a company that partnered with insurance companies. So again, if there were tornadoes that came through storm damage, etc, but the ones that I think were far more prevalent than natural disasters were individuals who had had a home fire, and so we had a lot of people that would stay with us. Unfortunately, in fact, it was kind of eye opening to me how often that happens, more often than you would actually think.

And the one that really resonates was an elderly couple. They were in their 70s, and she had gotten a brand new rice cooker. The rice cookers coming up again, and it was a relatively inexpensive rice cooker. And I used to have one like this, and I no longer do because of this story. She she turned it on, she cooked her rice, and when she was done, it flips to warm, but it didn’t automatically turn off. You have to physically unplug it. Long story short, she left. She thought everything was fine. They lost everything.

They had lived in this home together for, I think it was like 40 something years, they literally lost everything. None of their photos were backed up.

Kristi Lund

That’s so sad.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

I mean, again, it was truly, truly devastating, and so much of my time was really at that point, just spent listening and just just being that, that that person who just let her get all of that pain and the worries off of off of her shoulders, and I think that that’s something that we can’t forget. We, I’ve said this before. We have the honor of helping people during what is considered one of the most stressful times of their lives, whether they chose to relocate or like this family, were forced to do so because their home, they had lost their home due to a fire, and so I think we have to always keep that in mind, with all the crazy that goes on, it’s truly an honor to be able to serve and to be able to help people during their time of need, or during a time where it’s just so outside of their normal day to day that we can actually just give them some, you know, really good support emotionally as well, and that’s what they needed at that time.

Kristi Lund

Absolutely.

Ben Cross

You know, you talk about the top three most stressful events in someone’s life, and we talk about that all the time. Everybody in our industry knows the stat like the back of their hand. It’s, it’s death, it’s divorce and relocation, right?

And yet, there’s grief counseling. There is marriage counseling. But relocation counseling is not something that we, I mean, we offer consultants, we call them counselors, we call them whatever, we call them a lot of different things, and they do the logistics, and they bring it all together, and they make it happen. But Brenda, what you’re talking about like actually being a counselor for someone? Why don’t we do that? Why don’t we offer that as an industry?

Kristi Lund

That’s a really good question

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson 34:34

Innovation, yeah. Innovation. Ben,…

Ben Cross

Well, I know what that cost, because I go to one on a weekly basis, 1280 an hour. Okay, so I just, I wonder sometimes, why, why we don’t do it? You know?

Kristi Lund

It’s a very fantastic thought. You’re totally right. It makes me think of one of the biggest disrupting events that we’ve experienced in the past decade, the global pandemic in 2020, right? So I was moving employees at the time, and had some families who were in 21 day quarantine in Hong Kong in a hotel. So they’d fly and enter Hong Kong and directly have to go into a hotel, which is, to US standards, quite small, right? Comparative, if that’s what you’re coming from, 21 days stuck in a room,

Ben Cross

and the food was delivered to their door, right?

Kristi Lund

Yes, no fresh air, nothing you cannot leave at all. So I would have employees where we’d check in, and it was truly just a time for them to chat and have something more exciting going on in their lives, right? Like, Brenda, you were saying it’s just, you’re just there to listen, because that’s such a challenge I can’t even fathom.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson 35:44

Absolutely. I had one other story. I had a gentleman who worked in the IT space, and he had to work at odd hours so he he could go to the office when he when he was able to go to the office. But then there were times where he had to be on calls or doing something, you know, remotely. And he was in an apartment, so he didn’t exactly, you know, apartment communities don’t always have stellar Wi Fi, etc. And this gentleman was blowing fuses. We had more issues that I can even tell you, because he had so many things plugged in. And so, again, it’s things like that that you don’t realize that you have to, to your point, Ben, find solutions. There’s always a solution. It’s not, hey, this guy, he just needs to go work in the office. No, he needed to be able to work from home. This was before it was cool, before COVID to work from home. And so we had to come up with, we actually ended up having to work with the apartment community to have some type of electrical system that he couldn’t actually blow the fuses, because it was he needed that that much connectivity for his various screens and different devices that he had. So it was pretty crazy. But again, we got it done. There’s always a solution.

Ben Cross

There is.

Kristi Lund

There is, and Ben, I’m super curious, before we wrap up, from your perspective now in your new role with your company you’ve built from the ground up, is there anything heartwarming or challenging or unique that you’ve encountered from the space that you’re in now in terms of recruiting for our industry?

Ben Cross

Yeah. I mean, this is, yeah, it’s a great question. Thank you. I think I’m really blessed right now to be in this role where, I mean, we do consulting and we do recruiting, and the recruiting space is such a cool job, because we find ourselves at the intersection of a real kind of inflection point in someone’s career, right?

And we’re in a situation where we can help a candidate get a new job, which is fantastic for them. We can help a company get a new, transformational hire that comes on and changes the trajectory of their company. And of course, we win in the process as well. So it’s extremely fulfilling. It’s a win, win, win. And it’s so fun to be a part of the candidates’ personal journey. And you got to get to know their family situation and their partner and well, what is, what does he or she think about this opportunity? And, oh, well, your kids, and they’re gonna be out of school in summer. So therefore, maybe you can accept that, you know. So you really get to know that.

And then with the companies, you get a real peek into their strategic vision. And like, well, you know, we’re going to open up an a pack, you know, q1 of next year. Or we’re going to, you know, close this office and open this office, or we’re going to invest in this vertical so we need people over here. And you get to to learn a lot about the way that they’re looking down the down the road strategically. So I find it to be one of the most fulfilling things that I’ve done in my career, the recruiting and the consulting side, as well as the, you know, the the podcasting and loving reload and getting to really connect and share these kind of, I call them micro trauma events.

You know, when you do a podcast like this with somebody there’s all the nerves going into it, you know. And then there’s the exhilaration of having done it. And then afterwards, you’re like, How’d it go? Was it good? Was it good? Yeah, you were great. You were great too. Oh my gosh. And then you’re like, you tell your mom, or your, you know, your husband, or where, hey, watch us, you know, we’re gonna be on, you know, then listen to it, whatever. And like, so you get all this really cool positive feedback having gone through it, but you’re like, super nervous going through it.

So you share this kind of this micro trauma moment with people, and you have this bond now formed through that. So I have this bond now with BTJ and with Kristi and like, and now we know each other in a way that, like, we don’t know a lot of other people. And so you form those relationships, which I also find to be really, really gratifying. So, yeah, it’s a cool time right now. I’m very fortunate.

Kristi Lund

That’s really special. I feel like what truly brings us all together and staying in this industry is just how much we care about people. That’s no matter the sector that you’re in in our industry, whether it’s recruiting temp living, household goods, RMC, it’s all about caring for people, which is, I think, the most special part.

But I think we also kind of just all love the chaos too, because this is so fun to think about the crazy and the heartwarming and the memorable. And we could talk about this all day. I know whenever you get together with your industry friends, this is such a fun thing to chat about, like this crazy thing happened today, and here’s how we solved it.

So I’ll throw it back to both of you. What would you say amidst all the chaos and the fun, what is the main reason you choose to stay in the relocation industry? And what do you tell people who are curious about the industry?

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Yeah, so for me, it’s definitely the relationships. We are a very small but mighty industry. We are responsible for a pretty significant spend within organizations. But it’s very true. When we travel, you often hear people in the industry say, Oh, I’m going to be with my work family, and I know that they really mean it, because I feel the exact same way. You know, people say, Wow, Brenda, you’re always traveling, but I am traveling, but I’m with friends, and I’m with people that have become like family to me.

So I think that’s what keeps me going, is I’m so relationship based, and that’s what this industry is, in my opinion, founded on, we’re a service oriented industry. I’m a very, you know, I’m an empath, and I love serving people, so that’s what keeps me going.

And you had also asked another question when we were prepping for this about, you know, what advice would you give to somebody or or tell somebody who is considering coming into the field? And my biggest thing that I would encourage people who are already in the field, and maybe considering it, is really make sure that you cast your net wide in terms of education. I think sometimes when people go to conferences, they think that maybe the topics don’t apply to them. You want to learn as much as you can about every different sector in vertical in this industry, and also most of our global mobility leaders at organizations that we refer to as corporates, truly, what’s more important to them and to their leaders, oftentimes are the HR certifications. The HR components, not necessarily your CRP or your GMs certification.

So I would say, if you can, if you’re a person that wants to continue to learn and grow, cast a wide net. Pay attention at every conference, every session, even if it’s immigration and you’re a temp living provider, you know, be a sponge. Learn as much as you can, and also make sure that you’re you’re touching on those human resource skills as well and trainings that are available, because I think that that is going to set you up to move into different areas within the industry, if you chose to do so, like myself, going from temp living to working for an RMC, that was a really big leap. So but if you’re willing to dig in and learn, and I think it’s definitely achievable.

Kristi Lund

That’s awesome advice. All the puzzle pieces fit together, and it’s good to know the overall picture, rather than just your piece, right? And you all heard her here first. We’re all Brenda’s family now, and we’re all invited to Thanksgiving this year at her house.

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Absolutely, absolutely.

Kristi Lund

She’s a really good host.

Ben Cross

She’s still gotta see me ice fishing too,

Kristi Lund

Coming up!

Brenda Thoeny-Johnson

Yeah, Ben, we’d love to have you. We’d love to have you.

Love it.

Kristi Lund

What about you, Ben?

Ben Cross 43:29

You know, I’m very conflicted on this, right? Like, so, of course, I agree with Brenda. Like, when I get to go to conferences and see Brenda and people like Brenda, you know, my cup is full, and having a glass of wine and just catching up, ‘how’s family’ and what’s going on, and just like they are truly your best friends, like I’m closer to these people than I am my college friends or my high school friends. I mean, just because we keep up with each other, we see each other three or four times a year. We have the blast together, and we share so much together, and we get each other. We’re like, you know, kindred spirits in a way, right? We’re, this is our tribe, our relo people that get us right, because we’re we’re different, we’re niche in a lot of ways.

And so I agree with all those things totally. And I would just the only thing I would add is the fact that we’re so globally curious, in addition to being so empathetic and everything, we’re very curious about things. And Brenda is Brenda’s a very curious person and and I think we we enjoy other cultures, and we enjoy that the differences and all the fun facts and all the stuff, right like so we’re super curious. I think, I think not only are we kind and wonderful and loving and big hearted and generous, I think we’re also super curious and interesting people to be around and have conversations with. So I will say that as a positive, but I also counter it.

And you asked if I had advice for someone, you know, getting into this business or starting out and and I would honestly say, I would I would probably tell people think hard about it, because the amount of contraction that’s going on in this business, you have to be really exceptional. You have to be a BTJ. You have to be a Ben cross. You have to be someone who’s really at the peak of your game. Because there’s just not as much business as there used to be, right? It’s a contracting business. And so in a lot of ways, it’s mature in the in the life cycle of it’s kind of maturing, either that or you have to find a growth area in the business. I do think business immigration is one of those areas. I think that there’s some things around compliance and business travel that are growth areas, but there’s not a lot of them. You know, the domestic managed relocation programs, the big home sales and the big household good shipments and all the things that used to make a lot of money are all being whittled away right through macro factors and micro policy choices at the corporation level.

So I would tell somebody, I think, really long and hard about it, because and the chances are, if you are exceptional and a peak performer, a high potential type person, I mean, you could take that and you can go in other industries and possibly have better outcomes. Now I will say this also at the same time, other industries are also going through contraction and consolidation, right? So it’s not like we’re the only ones. I mean, you look across the board, and chip makers are buying each other, you know, you know, big box retailers are consolidating or leaving the space entirely. So, I mean, there’s a lot of that going on, but I would just, I would caution people and and to really think about it.

But if you’re gonna do it, to bring this point, if you’re gonna do it, learn and be a sponge. And the best way that I found, personally, to do that is to volunteer. So I volunteer like crazy. I volunteer at all the regionals. I would raise my hand at WERC, if they needed, you know, some idiot to hold a sign by the buses. You know, I’d be the idiot, right? If they want somebody to wear the captain’s hat and make a fool of themselves and point in the direction I’m your Huckleberry, right? And I think when, when there’s always a spot for someone like that, right? There’s always a spot for someone to stuff the gift bags or to fold the shirts or to register people, or to move chairs around the auditorium or whatever. And by doing that, you meet so many people, and you get out what you give, right? And so always be looking to give as much as possible.

Kristi Lund

Really fantastic advice from, like I said, two of our industry veterans.

And thank you both so much for joining us today, chatting about the fun, the crazy, the unbelievable of relocation and why we stay in relocation after all these stories, right? So thank you both.

We really appreciate it, and thank you to our listeners today. We really hope you enjoyed this episode and found it as fun as we did.

That’s all for today’s episode of mobility matters. Thank you for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.