mobility matters, S4 episode 9: relocation realities & tactics for today’s buyers, sellers, and corporate programs

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email cartussolutions@cartus.com with any questions.

Terri Bonfiglio 00:03

Welcome to mobility matters, the official Cartus podcast.

Kristi Lund 00:06

Join us as we dive into the hottest topics in global mobility and Talent Management.

Terri Bonfiglio 00:11

Get ready for some expert insights, honest discussion and maybe even a few laughs. Let’s get the conversation started.

Kristi Lund 00:20

Welcome to another episode of mobility matters, where we explore the fascinating world of corporate relocation. I’m your host, Kristy Lund, and today we’re really excited to have a chair side conversation between three relocation experts centered on practical strategies for navigating today’s real estate and mortgage environments.

So before we dive in, let’s talk a little bit about who this episode is uniquely for. So this episode is meant for you if you’re either a relocating employee within the US so you can learn about what to expect and how to prepare, or if you’re an employer who has a US domestic program, so you can learn a little bit more about what to consider before making a relocation offer in the US. And of course, we welcome you to stay and listen on if those don’t apply to you, but that’s our group that we’re speaking to today. So let’s start by getting to know our guests a little better. Fran, welcome. Can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little more about what you do.

Fran Forrest 01:21

Sure. Fran Forrest, I’m the Director of Corporate relocation for guaranteed rate mortgage, guaranteed affinity mortgage, based in the Mount Laurel, New Jersey area. I pretty much run the relocation section for GRA, Guaranteed Rate affinity for the company been in the business way too long, over 30 years. Now, about 20 of these years have been in corporate relocation. Excited to be here.

Kristi Lund 01:42

Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us, Allison. I’ll pass it to you. Tell us a little bit more about you and what you do.

Alyson O’Hara 01:48

Yeah, I’m Allison O’Hara. I am a senior relocation director at Coldwell Banker Realty. I have been with Coldwell Banker for over 20 years, and I lead a team that assures that relocating employees are matched with top performing agents across the country.

Kristi Lund 02:07

Awesome. Thank you, Allison. And last but not least, Terry, definitely not a stranger to mobility matters. But why don’t you give any new listeners a recap of who you are and what you do?

Terri Bonfiglio 02:19

Absolutely yes, it’s a flip of roles today. So I’m Terry Bonfiglio. I’m director of global consulting solutions here at Cartus. I’ve been with Cartus over 20 years as well, and I’ve been in the industry over 35 years. So I’ve just aged myself right there. But really, what we do is we work with clients, current clients at Cartus and prospects through our business solutions department, and we help them with everything from group move management to policy design to globalization strategies. And here today, we’re going to talk about real estate trends.

Kristi Lund 02:56

Wow, as you can tell, we have a lot of amazing years of experience and knowledge on the panel today. So I don’t want to hesitate to jump in. Let’s start talking about the market. So as many of you probably know, the US housing market has been a little bit of a roller coaster over the past few years. I can speak from personal situation of trying to be a home buyer right now, it’s a little challenging. So what better way to dive in to then to talk about the market as it stands today, when we look at Curtis’s 2024 move data, the most common departure states for relocation were Texas, California, Florida, New York and Illinois, and not too much different. The most common destination states were Texas, California, Washington, New York and Florida. So Allison, can you expand on these markets at the moment? Yeah, sure.

Alyson O’Hara 03:49

Christy, you know, it’s really interesting, because if you look at all of those different areas, there’s some real similarities between them, some high level commonalities that each market is experiencing. But then when you look at it on a regional level, there are some really big differences. So if we start with the similarities, almost all of these markets right now are experiencing conditions where the sales volume is actually a little bit down than it has been over the past couple years, and this is because of a few different reasons. You know, we are seeing that buyers are a little bit more cautious right now than they had been in recent years past. I know Fred is going to talk about things going on with rates, but the higher rates are making buyers a little bit more cautious and slow moving in their approach to jumping in the market. And overall, you do have affordability challenges in all markets, regardless of the price points where just buyers are feeling a little bit of hesitancy to move forward, especially when they feel like the price is. Are too high. So as a result of some of these factors, one of the biggest differences we’re seeing across all markets right now is, for the first time in the past few years, we’re starting to see inventory levels rise, which is really different, because over the past few years, inventory has been so, so historically low. So this is a good thing for buyers, because essentially, if the inventory is growing, what that means is that there’s just simply more options.

Kristi Lund 05:32

Really interesting. Allison, and thank you, that’s, I feel like it’s a nice way to start with a little bit of a positive outlook. So thank you for that inventory climbing, and Fran, I’m hoping, as a hopeful home buyer, you can give me some positive insight, too. So what would you say is currently happening with the mortgage outlook in the US?

Fran Forrest 05:50

Yeah, absolutely, tying into what Allison had mentioned, looking into rates right now, the hesitancy Allison talked about because rates are too high, what we’ve seen recently. I’ll start with this, and I’ll kind of dovetail into where we into where we think they’re going to go, and why. Right now, a 30 year mortgage rate is running just under six and a half percent, which is actually down the past couple of days. Our anticipation is by the end of this year, we’re going to be between six and six and a half percent, 26 we’re looking at, hopefully between maybe five and 6% in that range. A lot of that depends on a lot of factors, mainly the Fed and the Federal Reserve. But they look at lowering their rate. A lot of things go into play with that, inflation, jobs reports, unemployment report, a lot of acronyms, CPI, ppi, things of that sort we don’t think it into so they take a look at everything, tariffs thrown in this time as well, to try to determine the strength of the economy and where things are going to start to see things slow down. They do typically, will lower the rate. And what we saw, after their commentary in July was this past week, there’s been a little bit of slowdown. So the anticipation is when the Fed meets in September, they’re going to lower the rate. The Fed’s rate, which indirectly lowers mortgage rates. And investors already looked at that, and we’ve seen just this week, the rate come down to about 6.45 from 6.75 just a nice drop already, of course, looking at this time last year, our anticipation, not just mine, economist, was we would be in the maybe five and a half percent range. That didn’t happen. Rates were lowered last rate a couple times, from September, October. Then the Fed made some comments that, okay, we’re going to keep things where they’re at, and the investors get spooked by that a little bit like so rates go up a little bit at that point, but they’re much better than where they were about a year and a half ago. We’re close to 8% so we’re getting back to a decent market. However, to Allison’s point, there’s a lot of people out there with a rate of 3% or 4% which don’t want to move. That’s the inventory issue Alice is talking about. So I think the combination more inventory, lower rates, will get back to more a more normal market at that point.

Terri Bonfiglio 07:48

I look at both sides of this and and I think about the employee that’s going to be moving. And I do want to stress that it’s always critical to talk to your agent about the entire transaction. Make sure that you understand what’s happening in the market that you’re leaving and the market that you’re going into. And I know we’ll talk a little bit more about that later.

Kristi Lund 08:10

That’s a really good segue. Terry, thank you, because what we’d like to do is jump a little bit more into the strategy for relocating employees. So we are hoping to kind of give a better picture of the sale and home purchase process and what to expect. So knowing we’re seeing some shifts lately in the market, what are some dynamics of a seller’s market that employees should be aware of? Allison,

Alyson O’Hara 08:33

That’s a great question, especially because we’re seeing different market conditions in different areas, whereas, over the past several years, almost most of the US are in seller market conditions. And essentially what a seller’s market means is that there are more buyers than there are homes to buy. And that’s a very favorable condition for sellers, because it means that they essentially will have high demand for their home, and lots of buyers potentially fighting to buy their home, which is great for a seller, because it pushes prices up now over the past, recent years, especially 2020, to 2022, like it was a really frenzied demand. You had lots of bidding wars, buyers totally removing and waiving all of their contingencies. What started to happen over the past several months is that that demand is getting a little bit more cautious. You know, sellers still have that advantage in many markets right now, because the inventory is still low, but they still need to price realistically approach the market expectations with reasonable expectations based on what’s going on in their market, what’s happening with the buyers in their market right now.

Kristi Lund 09:57

Thank you so much for that breakdown of what it means to. In a seller’s market, and what shifts we’re seeing and the dynamics. Can you speak a little bit more to being in a buyer’s market and how that has shifted?

Alyson O’Hara 10:07

Yeah, I mean, some of our areas are starting to experience buyers market like conditions. So on the flip side of the seller’s market, a buyer’s market is essentially when there are more listings than there are buyers who want to buy them, and that’s why, as the inventory starts to grow and more and more listings Come on, it does lend to conditions that are more favorable to buyers, because it gives them more options. Traditionally speaking, it’s the sort of the threshold for that buyer’s market has been considered. If there’s six months or more of available inventory on the market that’s considered a buyer’s market condition. Right now you have less than six months worth of inventory in many markets, but it still feels to buyers like it’s more of a buyer’s market, simply because, you know, a couple years ago there were like no choices, it felt like now buyers are starting to feel that easing up. They’re starting to feel like there’s more properties online. They have more choices. On a Sunday, they can actually go see open houses because there are homes still available. So that’s a very big difference. And, you know, with everything that’s going on with rates and the affordability still being, you know, a real challenge, it does make it still more difficult, even in buyers market conditions, but the fact that the inventory is grown and there’s more choices, that helps a lot a positive outlook.

Kristi Lund 11:44

Yeah, definitely. And so if we’re thinking from a relocating employee lens, for those relocating employees who are listening, what would you say are the first three things a homeowner should do when preparing to sell their home?

Alyson O’Hara 12:02

Yeah, it’s, you know, it depends on what type of market they’re in, really. So the first thing I would say is to really talk with their agent and understand what’s going on in their local market. That’s the most important thing, to understand those unique dynamics to their area. Because if they’re in a seller’s market that is still really favorable, not a lot of competition in the market, not a lot of other properties for sale. Even in those conditions, that seller still needs to have a smart market driven price. They can’t, as I mentioned earlier, it’s not a name my price situation. They still need to look at what the buyers are willing to absorb and make offers on. But as a seller in a seller’s market, they still need to be prepared for a fast sale. So that means when they put their home on the market, they need to know what their next step is, and they need to be prepared, frankly, that a buyer may come up right within those first few days on the market and make an attractive offer, and so a seller wants to be aware of and have a plan for what their next step is, have their paperwork ready to go and make sure that they have a plan in place so that they can take advantage of that great buyer opportunity when it comes along. Now, if you’re a seller in a buyer’s market, it’s a little bit different, but still, it’s hugely important to price strategically. From day one, your agent will tell you what the market conditions are in your area, and if you are in conditions that are more similar to a buyer’s market, you really can’t risk over pricing your property, because time will be your enemy if you put the home on the market for too high and it sits that really starts to push the price down.

Terri Bonfiglio 13:49

Yeah, I think it’s interesting. As Allison’s talking, I was thinking of those things. So I think that the experience that we have over the years kind of trains us around that but, but really, I think, tapping into the experts that you have to understand when Allison talks about the conditions, understanding what the buyer pool looks like, what the neighborhood is doing, so you can talk to a buyer about those things, if there, if that neighborhood is turning over, that’s something to take a look At, because that may evolve your value in the future. So making an investment and maybe pay, you know, getting someone to pay a little bit more is more feasible versus the psychology that comes with a seller that’s been in a strong seller’s market, and then has to come to the reality, if they need to list their home for less than what they emotionally feel the home is worth.

Kristi Lund 14:39

I’d be really curious to know before we move on to the purchase side, have negotiation dynamics changed at all between sellers and buyers this year? What have you seen?

Alyson O’Hara 14:51

I have definitely seen them change. It’s really interesting for a few different reasons we talked about earlier that. Buyers are being more cautious and more strategic, whereas a few years ago, they were just making offers with no contingencies and highest possible now we’re seeing the process being a little bit more measured, and buyers are asking for things like, you know, for the seller to pay their closing costs, or they’re not all offering over asking. Maybe they’re even offering a little under asking, or they’re negotiating after the home inspection. So that’s definitely changing in many markets from the buyer’s perspective. But also we’re seeing that sellers are becoming a little bit more flexible. They’re more open to those contingencies. They’re more open to flexible timelines, and the most really interesting difference we’re seeing through the process is that both parties, sellers and buyers, are taking advantage of technology through the process like they really haven’t in years past. So they’re using AI to be able to understand pricing trends, and using those automated pricing tools to get a sense of you know what the market’s doing. So they’re coming in more eyes wide open. They’re using things like virtual showings online and virtual tours to sort of get inside the other homes on the market to understand really how one property compares to another. And all this is leading to really both parties, both the buyer and the seller, being even more educated throughout the process, and using and relying on their agent to help them interpret that data to their advantage.

Terri Bonfiglio 16:41

I would add that on two points that Allison was talking about, one in the way that the home is marketed, in thinking about it from a seller’s point of view, the technology has done things beyond the 360 tours that you see online, but actually the imagery that you take for the home. It’s so critical that that initial impression that a buyer has of your home, whether they’re seeing it online, or they’re walking into your residence by decluttering, making sure everything is clean, all of those things that you would normally think of, but also depersonalizing the home, taking down certain pictures when you’re doing the marketing pictures, there is technology that takes out clutter. So if you’re taking a picture of the shower, you didn’t have time to put all the things away, it’ll remove those items from the images and actually make it less stressful for the seller preparing, and then they can plan appropriately. I also think that the way that the negotiations may be shifting with the changes in the buyer representation across the nation, although we’ve had that in many states for years, that’s something that sellers are going to be thinking about. Am I going to offer as part of the closing costs to cover the buyer’s portion of the commission? It’s not something they can advertise any longer. So really thinking through again, where you stand in the in the selling or buying position in that state, right?

Kristi Lund 18:10

Absolutely, I can speak from personal experience. When I went into homes and seen that, like the list of updates that the homeowner has made throughout the years. They label things throughout the house. I’m like, wow, they really care about this home, and it must be in really good shape. So I understand that. So let’s picture relocating employees who are listening. You’ve listened to all of these pieces of advice. You listed your home, sold it in the first weekend. We celebrate. Now we got to focus on the destination side. So I’d be curious to know how buyers can position themselves to be competitive in a seller’s market without overextending financially.

Fran Forrest 18:49

I would say, first of me, first and foremost, if you’re thinking of buying, reach out to a preferred lender, corporate relocation professional, to Alice’s point before, there’s a reason. There’s certain realtors that are on with the corporate relocation accounts, things of that sort. Their knowledge base the advice they give, same in the mortgage industry, knowing what different companies may offer things of that sort of understanding the whole corporate reload lingo. Call it equity statements, buyouts that might exist, things like that. But certainly off the bat, I think any realtor would want get pre approved. Call one of these agents, loan officers, get pre approved, they’ll walk you through and be very consultative in their approach. What are you looking to do? What are you thinking? Are you selling your house? What’s your timeline? What are you looking to buy? How much you’re looking to put down? Which things can all change, of course, if you know, but it gives you a firm idea of maybe what you could be approved for, have your credit run, obviously, is one thing, because there could be things on there that you don’t not aware of, and it might not even be yours. So just getting that idea upfront what you’d be approved for, and the various options open to you, mortgage products, what’s open to me, it’s such a typical 15 to 30 year. Mortgage? Should I use my VA eligibility if I’m limited on my down payment? Do I use FHA or 3% down program? Am I going to be in a jumbo loan or a conforming loan? Many different even USDA loans, some properties qualify for that. A lot of people don’t know about that. There’s a lot of different options out there. And as invest, we seek multiple investors to give you not only the best price, but both most available products to you as well.

Terri Bonfiglio 20:24

I think another Thank you, Fran, and I think another area that I’ve seen and I’ve actually experienced, and I’ve re-fi’d a couple times with Gra, they’re fantastic, but one of the things that I’ve experienced is when you go in, you want to appear ready to go. And one of the areas that if you’re still kind of in that seller market zone, that you can help overcome obstacles with is if you can waive as many contingencies as possible. Obviously, the financing is critical. You have to make sure you have that one. But you can perhaps do an as is purchase, where you really look at the home very cautiously, you put a clause in the contract so you the opportunity to move on if there’s something mechanical or structural found, but that you will be able to make that decision independent of them, being tied to an inspection clause, if you will. So there are ways of going about that. It worked very well for me. In fact, I had that in my purchase of my own home, and I still was able to go back and something significant was found, and I was able to get a credit from that seller, even though I didn’t, I passed on the formal inspection contingency in my contract. So there are interesting things you can do. Allison, what about you?

Alyson O’Hara 21:41

I think that’s a big one. You know, we are seeing the contingencies really come into play. Other things that a buyer can think about is really understanding what the seller is looking for beyond just the price of the house. So maybe their agent can have a conversation, if time allows, with the other agent to understand, does the seller want to move by a specific date, like, do they want to really fast close? Or do they have children in school? So would they want to see out the school year? And your agent having a conversation with the other agent to understand what the seller wants, can help you shape an offer where you put the desired dates in there. And that’s just one more term that makes your offer more attractive. Another easy one, if the you know the finances allow, is just to increase the earnest money deposit. You’re not paying more money for the house. You’re just giving some of that money a little bit earlier. But that can be really attractive to sellers, because it shows that you’re serious, you’re really in the negotiation, and you’re willing to put that up front to show that level of gratitude, you know, importance and gravity towards the whole situation. So little things like that can really make a difference in strengthening your offer, especially if you’re not a cash offer, right? If you if you are financing it, you want to look for other things that can kind of balance that out to make it attractive.

Kristi Lund 23:15

Allison, what would you say would be the suggested increase for a earnest offer versus the standard to be competitive.

Alyson O’Hara 23:24

I think it depends on the market, and that’s where real so much of this actually really comes down to really having open, honest conversations with your agent and working with an agent who really knows that market, because they can advise what’s considered typical in that market versus what’s really good. And I work on along the eastern seaboard, for example, and I can tell you there’s very big differences from markets to market. So as a transferee, if you’re leaving one area we’re used to one way of doing business, you might be going somewhere else where things are done really differently, so leaning on that agent who has all of this local expertise and knowledge, they’ll help guide you on what’s going to make your offer as strong as possible in these circumstances.

Kristi Lund 24:15

Awesome. These are some really interesting negotiation tactics that I’m sure weren’t as relevant a few years ago, but now they’re becoming more important in 2025 and beyond. So let’s switch a little bit more to considerations for corporate mobility contacts, so thinking about how to structure your program and support your relocating homeowners in relocation. So for a little bit of data here, Cartus had a 2025 mobility survey that revealed 86% of relocation declines are tied to family or personal reasons, and a lot of that is tied back to homeowners not wanting to shift and sell their home in such a market. So Terri Bonfiglio, I’d love to hear your thoughts. And what are some proactive steps that companies can take to reduce relocation resistance, especially for their homeowners?

Terri Bonfiglio 25:07

Yeah, yeah. So I think in general, that was actually a startling statistic when we did that survey, when I reviewed that and it did say personal or family circumstances. So some of the things that we do here that there are different non traditional family needs that are perhaps not being met through traditional relocation policy. So having that ability to step back with your HR mobility team, think about where you can be flexible and how that aligns to your culture and your organization where you’re offering you know whether it’s additional schooling assistance to help them feel comfortable with matching the communities and the school environment that they need their children to be in, whether they’re highly gifted or just want to make sure that the the level of education is is the same, making sure that you’re thinking about the partner in the couple situation where you have a spouse or partner, not only do we do things like assisting with career navigation, but really assimilating, socializing, networking, volunteerism, things like that, making sure that your your family, is culturally prepared to go into the location, whether it’s domestic or not domestic, and then, of course, tying to the homeowner thinking about the benefits. So Fran was talking about a two, one buy down. So that’s a mortgage subsidy that a an upfront payment is made to bring the rate down. And there are a few different ways that clients can actually go about doing that for their employees. The employee can negotiate it with a seller as a credit right, something that they can work into the loan package. Not all lenders do that, by the way, or the employer can upfront those funds. And I do think that the two one buy down, there’s a 321 buy down. There’s all different types, but the two one gives them the opportunity to refi. You know, in a couple of years, so the rates are continuing to come down, is what we’re hoping for. And then there’s also a mortgage interest differential, and then there’s a points approach where they can actually reduce their mortgage rate permanently on their loan. I think the buy down is the most effective. It holds the employee accountable as well as it’s a reasonable investment by the employer, and I was reading that it the cost to replace someone that doesn’t accept a relocation is anywhere from 50 to 200% of someone’s base salary. That’s to get them in, to get them up and running, you’re going to have a productivity gap, the headache that goes with all that, and you’re losing talent, right? So you really want to grow your talent. So I think really making those types of investments through your relocation program is a small cost to pay for something that’s going to give you a big return. So that would be my initial thought for the client organizations that are listening to this today. And

Kristi Lund 28:01

Terry, would you say that you’ve seen those policy changes officially, or is it on, typically, a case by case basis, depending on if an employee is moving from buyers market or a seller’s market and vice versa?

Terri Bonfiglio 28:14

Yeah, two couple of things come to mind. First, we’re seeing a tremendous shift from a traditional policy framework to a core flex or employee choice framework, and that’s where companies are putting that additional decision making back into the employee’s hands, where they’re maybe offering them some flex dollars they can put either toward their new home purchase or toward a benefit like that, or toward cash out to apply to a benefit like that, then that’s been, as I said, a sharp uptick that we’ve seen. We have seen traditional client policies. We had, I think a 49% in our in our recent survey said they wanted to do a domestic review, but we’ve been doing a ton of policy, market practice reviews and policy updates for clients, and they’re very much in tune with what are the additional things that need to be thinking about. And we are starting to see some of these benefits reintroduced into the policies, whereas they kind of fell off while it was that strong selling market for so long, where they felt like their their employees, had lots of equity they could put forward into offsetting costs on their buying side, we’re definitely see it being reintroduced into policies today.

Kristi Lund 29:23

That’s really interesting to know. I know a lot of organizations are asking, do we need to make official changes yet or not? And it’s a hard, hard question to answer. It depends on the areas you’re moving from into. I just spoke with an organization this week where they’re haven’t changed their policies officially, but on a case by case basis, approving more time for relocation benefits in general, and then extending temp living as well, depending on the type of market the homeowner is moving from into. So thank you, Allison Fran and Terry for joining us today, and to our listeners, we hope you enjoyed this episode and found it. As insightful as we did, and don’t forget to rate the podcast and leave a review. We will catch up with you next time. That’s a wrap for today’s episode of mobility matters. Thanks so much for tuning in.

Terri Bonfiglio 30:13

If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode.

Kristi Lund 30:18

And if you have any burning questions or topic suggestions, get in touch at Cartus solutions@Cartus.com,

Terri Bonfiglio 30:27

See you next time you.